Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast
Join Penny Sansevieri and Amy Cornell for fun and frank discussions packed with clever ideas, easy-to-implement book marketing strategies, and critical publishing industry knowledge and insight! Designed to help self-published authors and traditionally published authors at any level, the Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast will definitely inspire you with new ideas for how to sell books, grow your platform, and make strategic business decisions as an author. Subscribe today and take that next step toward a more successful, long-term book marketing plan!
Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast
The Grey Box Syndrome: Why Authors Who Skip the Basics Get Ignored
When authors dream of book marketing success, they often fixate on bestseller campaigns, major media appearances, and viral social media moments. But what if these splashy strategies are actually built on something far less glamorous yet infinitely more important?
Penny Sansevieri and Amy Cornell pull back the curtain on the unsexy side of book marketing – the foundational elements that truly drive long-term success. Through real-world examples and candid insights, they reveal why authors who chase high-level strategies while neglecting their foundation often find themselves disappointed with results, regardless of their marketing budget.
One author with a solid email list generated 7,000 reviews within 48 hours of publication, while others with significant marketing investments struggle to gain traction. The difference? A strategic approach to foundational marketing elements like optimized Amazon retail pages, professional author websites, consistent email communication, and deliberate review acquisition strategies.
"It's like inviting people to a party that you forgot to attend," Penny explains when discussing abandoned social media accounts still linked from author websites – just one example of how overlooked details undermine reader trust. The hosts debunk common misconceptions about what marketing "counts," emphasizing that buyer psychology and retail optimization are not secondary concerns but rather the bedrock of effective book promotion.
For both fiction and nonfiction authors, this episode delivers actionable insights on building a marketing foundation that supports your long-term author career rather than chasing quick fixes. Whether you're preparing for launch or wondering why your current marketing isn't delivering results, this conversation offers a refreshing perspective on what truly matters in connecting with readers.
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Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast. This is Penny Sansevierie and Amy Cornell, and this show, again like all of our other shows, was very much inspired by conversations that we're having with authors and some of the things that we're seeing out there, and I know that maybe this seems like a little bit of a boring topic, but, believe me, it absolutely matters. It matters to your readers and, consequently, it matters to sales. Before we get started, though, I just want to mention that we so I am in the final stretch of the Amazon Author Formula workbook, which I'm really, really excited about, so you're going to be hearing lots about that. Our listeners are going to get, um, probably, early information first and foremost. You guys are are amazing. We love, by the way, hearing from our, from our, from our listeners, and we get emails all the time, and we actually just got a review, uh, somebody who couldn't figure out how to post it to um, to their, to the iTunes or wherever they were listening to, and we completely understand that, because it's a thing I don't understand why they have to make this so, why they have to make it so challenging, but we love reviews. We just got another one about the Kindle Unlimited show. Amy, did you see that? Yes, I love it. Yes, I am so excited. In fact, I cited that Kindle Unlimited conversation with the author that I spoke to this morning.
Speaker 1:So we try to do shows that you request. We get show ideas. We love, love, love your show ideas. Thank you so much. We have built a lot of shows out of show ideas. This one, in particular, wasn't so much. We love, love, love your show ideas. Thank you so much. We have built a lot of shows out of show ideas. This one in particular, wasn't so much. I mean, this has come out of conversations that we have had with authors, but it's also come out of a need and we do a lot of shows on wanting to skip the line, because it's really is a thing and foundational marketing sounds really boring, like it's just like it's just kind of a big yawn.
Speaker 1:Can y'all just go back and talk about Kindle Unlimited again? Like, I get it, but a lot of times authors are focused on very high level strategies, so media are focused on very high level strategies. So media, bestseller campaigns, doing ads, influencer outreach and things like that. Like we had an author and Amy and I've had some back and forth about this who literally their only reason for hiring a marketing firm is because they want a bestseller campaign. They want their book to be a bestseller. And look, I can appreciate that. I got a mention on Sandra Beckwith's blog last week and for the Amazon Author Formula the one that came out in January of last year and that book started hitting the Amazon bestseller list got the little flag again. Everything's very exciting, Like I get it.
Speaker 1:But when you're looking at those really long-term goals and I realize that you say, well, but Penny, how can it be a long-term goal if my book releases and I want to hit a bestseller list the day that it releases or in that week, that's not long-term, that's immediate, but I get it, and we've done a lot of shows on goal setting.
Speaker 1:That's not long-term, that's immediate, but I get it, and we've done a lot of shows on goal setting and that's not what this show is about.
Speaker 1:But this is another reason why I'm writing another book about you know, it's really it's a planner I don't have like I know we always tell authors like, oh, you have to know what you're writing before you're writing it.
Speaker 1:And I do know what I'm writing. But as I'm putting this together, it's really morphing into something that I wasn't expecting, because when we talk to authors about big, impressive, high-level goals, like being in big media and bestseller campaigns, which I just mentioned being in big media and bestseller campaigns, which I just mentioned there are so many micro steps that come ahead of that and we've done shows on that. Like at this point, amy, I think that we can very much say if we're addressing a topic, there's a show for that, because we've been doing this now for five years. But the foundational marketing is the basics, and the basics are the things that authors oftentimes overlook. In fact, I just talked to an author not that long ago who has a ton of books out doing all the things and is still has no author photo on Amazon and is a great, is basically a gray box on Amazon and it always just blows me away. I mean right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And to your point about the bestseller campaigns, I love that you mentioned that because, yes, that seems like a very immediate, this needs to happen now goal, which kind of sounds contradictory to long-term.
Speaker 2:But to your point, penny, everything that needs to happen to make those conversions happen, that's a lot of logistics. It doesn't mean it takes you a really long time, but there's a lot of boxes to check, and I think that's what gets overlooked a lot of the times. Right, like, oh, it'll just happen if I focus on the execution, that's all that matters. But your retail page is where the sale happens, and so so much has to go into ensuring that once people get there and actually have a chance to buy, they want to follow through and actually buy, and those are the things that get missed a lot, all those little details that add up to somebody actually going okay, this seems like something I want to get, let me buy this, and it sounds like a very simple thing. But psychologically for the consumer, a lot needs to go right, and so there are a lot of places to misstep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and you know, like a lot of people, like I get it like a lot of people want to cut the line, and that's especially in the book world. That's just not not, that's just not always possible. And when we're talking about high-level strategies, like things like I mentioned earlier media outreach, um, paid advertising so amazon, facebook, instagram, tiktok, getting endorsements, influencer partnerships, endorsements book bub deals are another big one. So a lot of book bub deals get rejected not because the author hasn't done a lot of work, but because their foundational elements are not taken care of Right. So it really is more important than you think.
Speaker 1:When an author cause I talked to an author the other day and she's like I can't get a book deal to save my life and, as it would happen, this same author is the one who was the gray box on Amazon. So it all matters. And, and something you know, I had a book person at a conference I don't know, it was last year or something tell me that they pay attention to reviews, they pay attention to everything that kind of underpins that book, as it were. Right, yep, as it were, right, yep. Amy, do you want to walk through? Do you want to start the list. Start powering through the list of foundational marketing and kind of what we're thinking about for this show.
Speaker 2:Yes, and as we've been fully admitting, this is typically the less sexy stuff, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's why a lot of authors again think, like I can take care of that, I'll hire somebody for the big stuff, which I understand where that rationale comes from, but again we just go back to.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of boxes to check and a lot of them just aren't on the typical individual's radar you know what I mean Whereas literally Penny and I live and breathe these checkboxes every single day. And it's a list you know. So, first off, optimize Amazon page. We've done a lot of Amazon shows, so those are available to y'all, but it really every single piece matters. And, more specifically, how you utilize all the different features of your Amazon retail page. A lot of those get left unused, so it's amazing that we can even say this, penny, but even now, in this day and age, authors that utilize all the different features and functions of their Amazon retail page are in the minority, and so those pages really stand out to shoppers as offering more about the reader experience, what the book is about, how much time and energy the author has spent making that buying experience a positive one for the potential reader.
Speaker 2:All of that matters, and those are still those authors are still in the very small minority that utilize all those features and options. So that is absolutely something that you want to do. I know it's like I could go on about that forever because it is so important and it's it's. You know, technically it's all, there's no extra cost to it anyway. Sorry, it's like no, no, no, no. I get on my soapbox about. You know, it's like when Amazon lets you do something and they don't charge you extra for it. Take advantage of it.
Speaker 1:you know, yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, you and I are both on the same page with that. I could go on. I could go on for days and sometimes, like it's kind of embarrassing like how obsessed I am with this, because sometimes, like I'll be talking to an author in a consultation and I'll be like, oh well, you're a book page. And they're'll say, well, I thought we were going to talk about marketing. Like we are talking about marketing, right.
Speaker 2:Guess what we are talking. Right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like this is the really unsexy part of marketing, but it all. This is not Mad Men, my gosh. Now you mentioned it. Now I want to watch that show again.
Speaker 2:I know it, I know. And the next one okay, professional author website. Okay, and I'm going to add in with a media page. Obviously, that is something that sometimes comes down the road.
Speaker 2:Having a media page when you haven't had media, we get it, but the website and we've talked about websites before too but it's very easy to get a simple, clean-looking website. So we're kind of past the age of like, oh, I haven't had time for that yet or I haven't set aside the budget. You know what I mean. It's really not something that has to cost a lot, especially not at the onset. If you want to do something much more complex later on, we support that fully.
Speaker 2:But the media page is a big one, specifically if you want to get media, because at first you can populate it with I mean, penny could go off on this forever but you put elements on your media page that the media can use. You put your background, you put your talking points, you put you know what I mean All your strengths. At some point it can start off functioning as somewhat of a media resume Highlight everything that's great about what you can offer and then, obviously, as you start securing media, you add that to it and you can build from it. But you want to look like you have a plan and you want to look like you expect. I mean it's like showing up with the confidence where media sees that and they go oh okay, this person is taking this seriously. I think I can take them seriously too, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:I find that really hard when authors want big media but they have zero presence online. It's like where do you expect us to send these people To your house, you know like they're not going to come knock on your door and chat with you about. But it's true when you really and I'm not trying to offend anybody, but truly, when you think about it, it really is very logical like, okay, you want us to reach out to big media? Where do you want us to send them? You know what is your home base that shows that you are ready for this. Right, that's a big component to this. Um, exactly, yeah, uh, the social media part using it consistently I realize not everybody. The social media part using it consistently I realize not everybody's into social media. We've done shows about how to operate without social media, so certainly that's an element. But truly, for some of you out there, depending on what your topic is, what your genre is, what your goals are, and we talk about this because of, like Penny said, she gets on the phone, she hears what goals are Okay Based on these goals. You know, and we talk about this because of, like Penny said, she gets on the phone, she hears what goals are Okay.
Speaker 2:Based on these goals, you really need a social media presence for X, y and Z reason. So this is one of those foundational things that it's worth chatting with somebody like Penny who knows what the market expectations are, to ensure you are paying attention to the foundational pieces that make sense to support your goals. Right, and that's kind of what we're talking about when it comes to social media. So those of you that are listening like, oh my God, I never want to be on social media. You may not have to be based on what, the kind of books that you write and your goals and who your readers are, things like that it is possible, but for some of you out there, based on your goals, you really aren't going to be able to skirt the social media element of this in this day and age. It's just a fact you know, right, right, do you want to do the email list one? Because I know newsletters are a passion of yours.
Speaker 1:Well, they are a passion of mine and you know it's amazing to me how many and you know, I understand from talking to a lot of authors that when I throw out, do you have an email list. Talking to a lot of authors that when I throw out, do you have an email list they're sort of like, um well, I don't really know what to do. So a lot of the top complaint is I don't know what I would say and I don't know what to do. And so, if that is you no-transcript. And there was an author that this is maybe two years ago. She was traditionally published and she decided she wanted to independently publish her next book and she had had a few books out, but she wasn't like. She wasn't, you know, like a Karen Slaughter or somebody who is super famous and I only mentioned because she's a book that I'm reading right now but so she wasn't a major national bestselling author, but she had some books on her shelf that she had written and traditionally published. So she decided to independently publish her book. Within 48 hours of that book being published, she had 7,000 ratings and reviews All from her email list, right? So when I'm on the phone with an author and I put that in perspective of here is what can happen if you have an active email list. It doesn't necessarily mean that she has 7,000 people on her mailing list. She could have had 70, but she asked them to spread the word and they did, and we're actually going to do a show on that, so I'm not going to go too far down that rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:But an email list is a direct connection to your reader. And for those of you who you know bristle when we mentioned social media, which a lot of people do, and we, as Amy pointed out, we have a lot of shows both on how to be better on social media but also how to market your book without social media your email list is a great way to communicate directly with your reader, so it's a really great way to share news and insights. It is a really great way to start to build an active reader base who cares about what you write, wants to read everything you write and wants to also help you get your you know, get your books out there. Start small right. Again, the email list thing when I, when we, when I have, when I coach authors, a lot of times they sort of glaze over which I get it because, again, it just sounds like a lot of not fun work, but it can absolutely pay off in the end. And then I think you know the final foundational piece and this is something that we help authors with, but I think is definitely in the foundational category is a review strategy, right.
Speaker 1:So how, um, are you, are you hiring somebody to get you reviews? Are you getting reviews If it's your first book? This feels a little bit like an unfair question, like I get it. But people buy, people like what other people like, even if they don't know who the person is that has reviewed your book. Like I'll look at books, even traditionally published books, where I get like a book bub deal for, and I check them out and they're maybe five years old and they have 15 reviews. First off, I don't know how y'all got a book by deal, whatever Right, but your book is five years old and you have 15 reviews. What is going on? So I mean, amy, don't you, when you look at books and when you get, you know when new authors come in and you want to put them on my calendar? I mean, amy, don't you, when you look at books and when you get, you know when new authors come in and you want to put them on my calendar. I mean, that's the first thing that you look at as well, right?
Speaker 2:Oh, I absolutely look at that and again, a lot of this. We're also gauging this against your goals, you know, and against where your book is at. It's all very personal, like this whole process is very personal, personal and there are so many different factors that have to get weighed. You know, none of this is completely make it or break it in a vacuum. You know there's a lot of considerations that especially we take when people come to us and want to work with us. I mean, there's so many different things that we consider and brainstorm about.
Speaker 2:But the review strategy is absolutely something that you don't want to be surprised with. You know, like we get authors that come to us and when we say, ok, what are you doing on your end about your reviews? And they've never thought about it, you know they're really just hoping it happens and it's like you can't play a passive role in getting reviews. You know right, in getting reviews, you know Right, like there really has to be a plan for it or you just need to also realize that keep your goals realistic. If your book has been out for a couple of years and you only have, like Penny said, you know you only got a handful reviews and then you come to us and say I want big media. It's like that's not a great look.
Speaker 2:If we're being entirely honest, you know it's not a great look and that is something that you will have to battle against and work on. That's just the reality of it. It's not like anything's impossible, nothing's off the table. But keeping your expectations in check, based on just the market standards, is super important. Yeah, exactly, that's where a lot of this foundational stuff comes in is just there are market standards is super important. Yeah, exactly, and that's where a lot of this foundational stuff comes in is just there are market standards that, no matter how great your story is or how great your content is, you can't skirt those, and we aim to try to help authors understand what those standards are and then make sure they're aligning their marketing strategies and their goals with those standards and trying to work with that, because that's how your book looks better to potential buyers.
Speaker 1:Right, and this is where both Amy and I have such a massive disconnect with some of the one and done services that you can buy online. Like I can just buy a bunch of reviews and I can just, you know, like the one and done stuff and I get. The appeal of that is they're probably really inexpensive, right? So for 99 bucks you could get X number of reviews or whatever, and great. So we just mentioned reviews, get more reviews Fabulous. We have a whole show on that too, so be sure to check that out.
Speaker 1:But a good marketing company, a company that really wants to help you succeed and help you to do better not just under their watch, but ongoing should care about your foundational marketing, which is why we include a lot of that in the work that we do with our authors. So if you're working with somebody who isn't asking you about that or doesn't care about that or hasn't had a, you know you haven't, has never been addressed in anything, that's a problem. Foundational marketing sounds again super boring, right, like I get. It Sounds super unsexy. Super boring, right, like I get. It Sounds super unsexy, but it's. The majority of authors don't realize that they're doing it wrong, not because they don't care, because they do care but nobody has told them otherwise or there's a lot of misinformation out there. We're also really close to our own work, and I say we because, as an author, I've been there.
Speaker 1:I wrote a book description and I've addressed this before in our podcast for how to sell the Amazon author formula.
Speaker 1:I wrote a book description for that and I read it out loud and I sent it to Amy and I read it out loud again and I was like how am I even allowed to go outside, right? And I mean, and I do marketing for a living, right. So so we, you know a book descriptions very tricky I'm pretty sure we have a show on that too of not just the work that we do the bigger, more robust elements in terms of like pitching and doing all that stuff but even just in your, in your Amazon retail page and buyer psychology when you're, when you're looking at your own page and it's your book and you're in love and it's release day and you're so excited it's easy to just forget about that or dismiss it. I mean, amy, you do a lot of Amazon book page evaluation and you, I mean, we see this a lot, but you also see this a lot on those book pages in particular, that the buyer psychology has never really been addressed.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, it's kind of like authors should be the best person to describe their work, to describe the highlights of their content, their story, their area of expertise, like that is what you specialize in and we love that. We love especially partnering with clients that have very strong opinions about what they have to offer. That is ideal for us, right, but you have to be able to make that make sense to someone else that is not super close to your work, that doesn't know who you are, that doesn't fully understand your background. Because I think a piece of this that also often gets forgotten, penny, is that you don't have very long to convince somebody right to consider buying your book. That's right. You can't expect to have 30 seconds with someone, let alone a couple minutes. So really, every element of your retail page needs to be primed and ready to convert somebody, and that comes down to a single bolded sentence in your description. Sometimes because that's all that catches their attention as they're scanning the page description. Sometimes because that's all that catches their attention is they're scanning the page. So it's little details like that that really add up, because you don't want to miss an opportunity.
Speaker 2:So, bringing in the buyer psychology, why would somebody care about this. What is going to grab someone's attention if they don't know the full background of the story? You know what I mean. What are those intriguing elements that genre fans are looking for right now? How do I pull that out of what the author has told us about their book and their storyline? You know what I mean. So it's really that kind of goes hand-in-hand with getting too close to your own work. But the buyer psychology has a lot to deal with that too, because it's hard to, when you're too close to something, to be objective and think about somebody else's experience with your book, you know, or with your retail page, exactly.
Speaker 1:And I think that if you are, you know so we also did a show. Sorry, it seems like all I've done during this recording is, um, give a nod back to other shows, but there's a show for that. I think that's a commercial too. I mean about there's an app for that or something, Anyway, whatever.
Speaker 1:But I think that if you are feeling like nothing is working in your marketing, take a look at your foundational elements and make make sure that everything's lined up. In fact, I talked to an author, um, last week and she said I came to you because I heard your show on. Should I give up on my book? And that's a show that we specifically did, like we went down a list and so if you feel like, oh my gosh, if you're nodding and you're listening to this, go back and find that show, because that's something that we did and a lot of authors, like everybody who's listening knows how we feel about the conversation of ROI, and you know it's funny because Amy said earlier she's like I hope we're not offending people. I'm like, Amy, honey, we I'm sure that at some point ship has sailed, Ship has sailed, I'm sure at some point. You know. What's so funny is people are just some of these. Oh, my God, some of these people I talked to. They're just so sweet.
Speaker 1:I talked to somebody, I guess, two weeks ago and she's like I know how you and Amy feel about and I forget now even what it was. I know you feel about X, y, z and I and she's like, yeah, I listened to your podcast and I'm like, oh, that's great, but she, she goes. I know you feel strongly about and I'm like, oh my gosh, yes, we are so obvious about we would be terrible poker players, so we're so obvious about it oh yeah, absolutely, but spending on media and we do see this a lot.
Speaker 1:So we have an author that we're not we're not working with, but amy and I both kind of we worked on his proposal because he was spending a ton of money on ads. There was a lot of money going out in ads and there were none of the foundational elements and basically you may as well just be throwing that money over the fence and let your neighbor have it, because doing media, doing anything big that we talked about earlier on the show, without making sure that your house is in order, so to speak, is money that is wasted. Right, but spending money on foundational marketing is perfect for long-term growth. Is there ROI in foundational marketing? Okay, that's a tricky conversation and I'm not sure that I can answer that, but there is no ROI in spending money in media and doing all the things and not having your house in order. Right, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:Amy, do you have a better way of putting it? You probably do.
Speaker 2:No, I thought that was perfect. Yeah, I mean you already said we don't like the ROI comparison because it's just like there are so many other factors involved in ROI. You know so and you know we harp on covers. So it's like, okay, get all the foundational stuff right and you've got a scary cover. Okay, obviously that's not going to help your cause any, but right, right, right and go ahead, no, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I agree there's a lot of components to this, but absolutely true, I mean that is why, when authors come to us, I mean that is why, when authors come to us, you will see the scope of a campaign, which make you know whatever that is for an author's budget, whatever we can do with, that always includes whatever foundational elements we know we can help them with to ensure that anything they do, either with us or after our work is done, makes more sense.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, so it's like we will always and that's why I always like almost fall out of my chair when we hear authors come to us that say, like I spent $12,000 on a media campaign and I wasn't very happy with the turnout. You know, it's just like oh, my goodness, it just amazes me that companies will, like you said earlier, penny, if people aren't pushing back on you on certain things about your foundation, then you really have to consider whether or not they're assessing your long-term potential as well. And that's something that we focus on a lot is that we're not going to do things that only make sense for right now, because we can do it and we can do it easily and you can be in and out the door and you got what you asked for. It's like we will absolutely tell you you need this, this and this, and then we can do some sexy stuff too. But we have to do this first.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, exactly. And you know, I mean it is like I said, it's not always, um, it's not. Sometimes it's not an easy conversation to have because we felt we both felt really bad for that author who had spent so much money and had not done all of the other things and was so discouraged because, you know, look, I mean it's an investment. Like we have authors tell us all the time like, know, look, I mean it's an investment. Like we have authors tell us all the time like this is a any investment is a big investment, because you're essentially you know so I had an author years ago and I've used this quote so many times when I've talked to folks Getting you know, investing in book promotion is kind of like sending your kid to college, so you want to send them to the best college you can and then, at the end of the day, you hope that they do something with the education that you paid for.
Speaker 1:Right, and the marketing is kind of the same way we realize it's a big, you know, it's a big ask. It's a big like you're walking up and you're spending that money and you don't know what's going to happen and everybody wants a lot of want, certainty, which is where I think that some of these companies who will just take your money and run kind of, I think they they sort of feed on that Right and there, no matter how you, no matter how you slice it, there's never any certainty. But I can tell you with certainty that if you don't pay attention to your foundation, houses built on sand generally don't survive, right. So, not to get too like weird and metaphorical, apparently, I'm all about the quotes today. So actionable takeaways. Amy, do you want to, do you want to take us through a couple of these? Amy, do you want?
Speaker 2:to take us through a couple of these. Yeah, I mean yeah, Main takeaways from this. Thank y'all, as always, for listening to us rant. We have strong feelings. Sometimes those overwhelm us, you know it's like.
Speaker 2:But truly get your retail presence on Amazon in order. That is a first and foremost. You know, no matter what you do, you build from there, and it's never too late, you know. So if your book is already out or you're already on your third book or your fifth book and you're thinking like, well, wish I would have heard this a few years ago, it doesn't matter, you can fix your Amazon presence now. It's one of those things that you can tap into anytime.
Speaker 2:And again, we've done shows on this and it should be revisited. You know, keep it updated, keep it interesting, Right, Right. And another big one too. You know, again, create content and be out there. That's another really important element of this is that you really can't we can do a lot for people, but nobody should be telling you that they are the one and done secret to success. You know you can't rely solely on one marketing campaign or that first month of your book to carry you through the rest of your author career. So get comfortable creating content and putting yourself out there. I mean, there are so many different ways to do that we could do a whole show on that, like all the different content you can create and where to put it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've done a show on that. I'm sure there's a show for that.
Speaker 2:Yes, but truly you know. If you're a nonfiction author, the easy way to look at it is you need to show people that you have what it takes, because they're not just going to trust, because you published a book, that you are the answer to all their problems. So by creating content in multiple formats, in different ways, you are reinforcing that you know what you're doing. Fiction author it's about immersion. It's about the reader experience, creating content and putting extra stuff out there. Putting in that little extra effort as part of your foundation shows readers that you care, you're showing up for them and they're more than they're more likely to you know to get on board with you If they're seeing that you're putting in the extra effort beyond just pressing publish on Amazon, you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then I think that you know if you are you really want to show. We always tell authors we like to work with authors who are invested in their own success. And the word invested doesn't necessarily mean monetarily, it just means that you are out there doing the things. Show readers that you care, it's not about us. Show readers that you're invested in their experience. This will really help you to stand out with influencers and podcasts and media and things like that. Show people that you are engaged in your own success. And it doesn't mean that you have to spend hours and hours on social at all or creating this. You're like, oh my gosh, I wrote a book and I'm writing, trying to write a second book and now you know, amy and Penny are telling me that I have to write more content and I'm never listening to the show again, like I get it. But you know, I mean, look, this is a business, right. I mean we've been around for almost 25 years. We do that. We've been around this long because we do really great work, but also because we pay attention to all the foundational stuff, and Amy is actually really she has an eagle eye for that stuff and not to be like not blowing smoke, but truly like she'll catch stuff that I don't catch.
Speaker 1:It matters, it all matters. Like I had an author and I forgot to tell you this. But we have to now. We have to dig through the website and figure out where it is. I had an author who combed through our website and found an old number of published books. He goes that number doesn't match up with the number that's in your proposal of how many books that are published every day, hour, minute, year, whatever. And I'm like oh my gosh and I actually made a note. I'm like find the page, find the page. It doesn't mention. Details matter to readers. It mattered to this guy because he mentioned it. Mattered enough that he mentioned it to me on the phone and he's probably also trying to be helpful. Details matter, matter to readers Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And speaking of websites, have a home page, have a home base, have a website, even if it's just a one pager. A lot of times when I tell authors you need a website, they overthink it. And I get it because you see all these websites. You're like oh, like you know, I have to have all these pages. You do not have a one page website. Um, just something that showcases your work and then you can always expand it later. You know you can have um, you know you can add to the website as you grow your career, right? So just just, you know some really basic stuff.
Speaker 1:And the other piece and it's not on our show notes but if you have like sometimes authors will, you know, deep dive into social media, be like I'm going to have all these places, I'm going to have all these things, I'm going to do all the things. If you only nearly need to be on one social media site, if you want to be on multiple and you have time to update those and keep that content active, fabulous. But if you don't, and if you have paused the use of any particular site or whatever reason like maybe you got excited about TikTok and you're just like, oh my gosh, I can't create enough video for TikTok, I get it. Make sure that you are pinning something to the top of those accounts to let people know where to follow you.
Speaker 1:And the second part of that conversation is pull those links off of your website. Yes, right, Don't make people go to a page. It's kind of like inviting people to a party that you forgot to attend, like to attend your own party. So don't send people to a social media account that is abandoned or whatever. And you know a lot of people like a lot of people, abandon their their Twitter, slash X's account and fine, or whatever like, and then the hate turns to facebook. Now I hate facebook, so right, so I'm like abandon facebook, but the facebook profile is still listed on their website and then people click it and they're just like, well, there's really nothing going on with this party, um, so I think that that I think that pretty much kind of wraps up everything that we were going to talk about in this show. Right, I mean, yeah, um, so again, we we love.
Speaker 1:I know this was a very unsexy show. I don't even know how I'm going to write this up Podcast show, so people don't just like skip over it, because it's very easy to do, but you, you, really you. You can't skip the line, and I think that, at the end of the day, is the core message. Um, and thank you so much for listening. And we love show ideas wherever you listen to, uh, podcasts.
Speaker 1:We love a review, like the author who emailed us a review last week. If that gets too tricky, we get it. They don't make it easy. It's very weird. Email us the review and we'll add it to our podcast page. If you just found us and this is your first listen not all of our shows are so unsexy. I feel like I have to keep apologizing for that joke. We have a ton of content. We have five years worth of shows, so be sure to subscribe to the podcast and then you'll get us in your feed every single Friday. We are awesome, if I do say so myself, and you can also find all of our prior shows on our website, and that link is in our show notes. Thank you all so much for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye.
