Latest Goodreads Changes and Why They Matter for Authors

Goodreads recently rolled out changes that have authors and readers debating everything from review bombing to pre-publication ratings. In this episode, we break down what actually changed, what it means for authors, and how to respond without getting pulled into online panic.

We start with review bombing—coordinated waves of ratings from people who often haven’t read the book—and how this behavior has distorted the launch window for many titles. Then we explain Goodreads’ new safeguards around pre-publication ratings. Readers can no longer rate a book simply because it appears on their Want to Read shelf. Instead, they must mark the book as Read or Currently Reading and disclose how they accessed the copy, such as through an ARC or giveaway. It doesn’t eliminate manipulation, but it adds transparency and makes abuse easier to identify.

One of the most talked-about additions is Goodreads’ official Did Not Finish (DNF) shelf. Readers have been creating their own versions for years, but formalizing it changes the dynamic. We discuss why this feature may actually reduce reactionary one-star ratings and how thoughtful readers use DNF shelves to track timing, taste, and expectations. For authors, those signals can offer useful insight into positioning, blurbs, and category alignment.

We also look at how Goodreads and Amazon function very differently. Goodreads behaves more like a community for dedicated readers—more conversational, more visible, and often more responsive when issues arise. Amazon, on the other hand, remains a massive retail engine where reporting problems can feel like shouting into the void. Understanding that difference helps authors use each platform more strategically.

Finally, we tackle a listener question about category mismatches and the temptation to chase bestseller badges. Short-term tricks may create momentary spikes, but long-term visibility comes from clear positioning, honest metadata, and reaching the readers who actually want your book.

If the latest Goodreads changes have you wondering what matters and what doesn’t, this episode will help you focus on the controllables—and avoid the noise.

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: Why Goodreads Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome back to the Book Marketing Tips and Author Success Podcast. This is Penny Sansferry and Amy Cornell. And we are we are going down the Goodreads rabbit hole um today. So Goodreads has made a couple of notable product and policy moves slash changes recently. And the internet does the internet you know did what it the internet does. The reactions were loud and quite emotional. And you know, here's the thing, right? So at scale, Goodreads has 150 million members. So even everything is magnified on Goodreads. So even a small policy change gets to be just huge. And you really have to, and Amy, she Amy really went down the rabbit hole for this episode because you really have to dig around to find out what the what the truth is. So the first point when I was going through her notes, because Amy's our resident Goodreads expert. And when I was going through her notes, and the first thing that I saw was review bombing, I was just like, are you kidding me? Because Goodreads has, I mean, look, let's just put all our cards on the table. Goodreads has a little bit of a reputation issue sometimes with authors. Like they feel like, oh, they've heard so many bad things about Goodreads. We literally never had any issue with Goodreads. I mean, we've, you know, we've never had the some of the problems that you see like on Reddit and whatnot, which is part of the reason why you have to, you have to move away from the drama to get to the truth, which is hopefully what we'll do this episode today. So, Amy, the review bombing stuff, what what's going on? Because that already had me like, oh my gosh.

Review Bombing Defined And Exposed

SPEAKER_01 2:06

I know. And so, I mean, this is this kind of relates to our recent Amazon review episode where we talked about how there's a lot of different ways to get reviews. Some of them are not great. Some of them result in a lot of reviews at once that actually make you look worse than they make you look better. If anybody didn't listen to that episode, listen to it because these are surprisingly closely linked in that regard. But review bombing essentially means it's a coordinated effort of a lot of typically, unfortunately, for good reads, you see it more with negative reviews, but sometimes positive. And of course, they're not actually based on reading the book. Similar to review programs, cheap review programs, you can get to get Amazon reviews. A lot of those are very obvious that the person didn't read the book. But this became a big problem for unreleased books. So authors that were putting books up for, you know, they were having it listed before it released. Uh politically charged titles, like I know, just literal uh pop culture drama, things like that. And like people were actually like, and this was author on author crime a lot of times too, Penny, which is added. Right? Where the added drama comes in, where authors would go and schedule like a coordinated effort to give negative reviews to a competing author's book before it was even released to try to affect the release success, like wild stuff. Wild stuff. And Goodreads, thankfully, I mean, even though you know, sometimes policy changes can be hard, thankfully, was like, we can't have a space that allows this. Yeah. You know, it's just and I'm glad they did it. For as much as like these regulations, because we, you know, fetch about the Amazon stuff all the time. And it, but it it really needed to be dealt with because no authors should be subjected to somebody else coordinating efforts, whether it's positive or negative. That's like another level. But review bombing across the board just needs people need to chill out on that.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, I don't really understand. I mean, I would think, I would have thought, I mean, I'm glad that they put systems in place. Um, I'm glad they put limitations in place, but I would have thought that Goodreads, frankly, already had a system in place for that. And this is kind of my those. So this is my my my issue with when Amazon purchased Goodreads, what is that almost 10 years ago? I think you you hadn't been, you we hadn't been working together for that long when Amazon bought Goodreads, and they haven't really done anything with, I mean, they haven't done enough with Goodreads, in my opinion. And maybe Goodreads is just, you know, doing its thing, and I'm just stupid and I don't know what I'm talking about. But I feel like somebody was asleep at the wheel here.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah, I think they they've been very slow to roll out. I mean, when they first acquired it, what they did was take away a lot of features, which was I I did not like because it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, if you're gonna take stuff away, give us something new to work with, you know? And then they very slowly, sluggishly started adding features back, changing how things are done. I will say they've made added protections for authors claiming their profiles, which on a personal level I I hate. But on an author level, I fully support because there is so much, it's so easy for your likeness to be taken or bots to represent you, or and now we have AI written books, you know, we've got Penny's bird book floating around out there.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Oh my gosh, my bird book. That's weird. But we have all these problems.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Goodreads, which didn't surprise me because Amazon takes privacy so clearly. Goodreads really lock down what it takes to be the representative of a work, to be the to claim that you are actually the author of a work. Because it was, it was easy to do previously, to potentially somebody could go in there and be like, I'm the author of this book, and who knows what kind of chaos they could cause, you know? So I think Goodreads focused first on making it more pri like upping the privacy settings like Amazon. It did a lot of like unsexy, unfun behind the scenes updates versus the actual usability updates. And at the end of the day, Goodreads, it it is a reader platform before it is an author platform. We just have to be honest about that too, you know?

Amazon’s Acquisition And Slow Product Changes

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, which also is why, and we talked about this in the green room too, which is also why everything on Goodreads is magnified. I mean, when when you're if you're on Goodreads as a reader, you are a serious reader, you read a ton, um, and they do tend to be more. I don't want to use the word critical because that's not really an accurate statement, but they are they really they know their these folks know their stuff, right? Yes, yes, these are super fans, these are super readers, you know. They are super, yeah, exactly. That's a great way to put it. They are super readers. So, you know, don't be showing up with you know, a less than because you will find out that that's that's quickly become a problem. So now Goodreads has so I'm seeing some complaints, and I was doing some research online prior to recording that people are saying that they can't rate a review. Um, so what what's going on with that? I mean, is that a thing or is those just part of the limitations?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah, so this is new specifically for pre-publication books. So this is like the first, like one of two major updates we definitely wanted to cover. So pre-publication ratings changes. So the biggest thing to know is that you can no longer rate a book just because it's on your want to read shelf, which, you know, when we talk about it now, seems kind of crazy that you could do that in the first place. I mean, I realize you just click a button, want to read versus red, but still, like there's some sort of moral accountability there, I guess, you know? Yeah, yeah. But so now, which does make sense. So just because you want to read it, you can't rate it, you know, for a pre-publication book. And to rate a pre-publication book now, you need to mark it as read or currently reading. So again, this is more of that like moral ambiguity, like, ooh, will you click it if you're lying? Right, right, right. Right. And but then you have to indicate this is huge. You have to indicate how you obtain the book. So that was not a thing before. So whether it was an art source or a giveaway, and then, you know, so that's I think that is a huge shift. So again, anybody can lie, fine. But the point here is that Goodreads really is trying to protect authors and books from being unfairly assessed, rated, reviewed. Because, again, like we said, this is a reader platform. You know, this is for books, this is for super readers, this is for people that love being in the reading environment. And so Goodreads is putting in extra measures to hopefully keep people more accountable for what they're doing on the site, you know, and how they're utilizing it.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

So you actually have to then say where you got the book from. Yes. And is Goodreads giving you options to do so? Or is it just like fill in the blanks? Like, I got the book from whatever.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

That part I have not done personally yet. I need to go in full disclosure. Like, I have not gone in to try to rate a pre-publication book because I I wish my schedule allowed for me to track pre-publication books that we're not working with.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Pre‑Publication Ratings: New Limits And Proof

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Exactly. I mean, I'm lucky to get something done on my Tubi Red Shelf that's been out for a couple of years. I mean, that's that's that's moving quick for me, you know? Right, right, right, right. But yes, uh it it sounds like from what I've read on threads and things like that, that you do get options to choose from. Because obviously Goodreads doesn't want you just, you know, typing the version of the middle finger in response to the book. But yeah, and then also Goodreads has apparently, I and again, these are things that I'm I'm so excited when I'm on the platform now to keep an eye out for these changes because, you know, as an Amazon does, sometimes they roll out these things, they actually do it before they announce it. So if you're really paying attention, you can see some of this stuff. But apparently they're also making it clearer when a book has not been published yet. So as a user, if you are seeing anything suspicious in terms of like, wow, that review seems a little off or that seems a little extra harsh or whatever, it's letting Goodreads is letting you know this book hasn't even been released yet. So if somebody's like giving a lot of negative detail or anything like that, and they haven't indicated, like, you know, it's just again, it's an accountability thing. Goodreads wants you to be able to take these pre-publication ratings with a grain of salt, which I think is more than fair because the reality is not a ton of people get ARC copies. Like, no, that's true. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that's a that's a huge honor. Like if you have access to ARCs from an author, that's a big deal. And so if a book is just getting a ton, like, and I think that was the problem that some books were just getting a ton of ratings, uh, and some of them negative before it was even released. It's like, what's the reality that all these people have read this book? You know?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's a very good point. But the review bombing was for all books. The review bombing wasn't for just for pre-publication, right? The review bombing was just any book that's on. I mean, obviously not every book, but this wasn't happening with every book. But, or was this isolated at pre-publication?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

I think the review bombing became a bigger problem and more obvious to Goodreads when it was being applied to pre-publication.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Got it. Okay, but it was happening across the board.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

It was happening before, but I think Goodreads finally felt like they had to step in and do something else for pre-publication books specifically to protect the fairness of letting that book actually release and having the the public really get a chance to read it instead of letting some shady characters potentially get in there and mess with the system, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're right.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

I mean, pre-publication, very few, very I mean, I I would say the majority of people on Goodreads may have more access to pre-publication than the average reader. But generally speaking, you know, most of us we we don't we don't get copies that early, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I know. And I I like this, honestly, Penny, because you know, it's really focusing on reducing that I love this term, drive-by ratings. Yeah. Or hype-based one-star, five star ratings, because we all know, like, especially bigger name authors, there's buzz around them, sometimes good, sometimes bad. I mean, we've like we've seen stories where some authors, like something scandalous happens and their career is destroyed through ratings and reviews and like these coordinating. So it's it's this is a way to kind of add friction to the manipulation of the system specifically.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Which I think is great. And I do love the turn of drive by reviews. I'm gonna totally use that. This no, because we've hated that on Amazon for a while. I was just gonna say that. Oh, go ahead. Yes, go. No, I no, I no, we're on the same same page here. I hate the fact that you can just rate a book on Amazon. It's like, no, no, force people to write a thoughtful review. You know what I mean? Like force people to write a thought. Also, by the way, Amazon, if you're listening, I think there should be a word count minimum on reviews so that we can avoid getting those reviews that just say, love the book. I mean, literally, like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Right. There's a word count sometimes when I want to return something. Thank you. Right?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

It's like yes. Sorry. Now obviously, this show has gone totally off the rails. Listen, I gotta tell you, the next major update. So ahead of the show, there was an article in Good Housekeeping, and the article was cheering this on. The title of the article in Good Housekeeping was this was I am personally horrified. Like I wanted to post a comment on this article, but it wouldn't let me. Book quitters rejoice. Good reads. No, wait, Goodreads just announced did not finish shelf. As a book editor, I think it celebrates prioritizing your interests and having fun reading. Just say no. Wow, I hate that. I hated that this literally. This literally just came out in in uh late like a week ago. Um tell us about the DNF. First off, DNF just sounds awful. Like when I first saw that, I was like, oh my gosh, that sounds horrible. And then when you realize it means did not finish, that means that's even worse. Why?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Why, Goodreads? Why are you doing this? I know. Is that like the dating equivalent of saying somebody has a good personality? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Right. I mean, that's like the dating equivalent of swiping left. Is it swiping left or swiping right? I don't know. Somebody correct me. I obviously obviously swipe.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

All that fancy stuff came off, came out after I was not interested anymore.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Anyway, you're swiping in a in a very obviously in a very non-flattering direction because now tell us about the because I know I'm getting I know my author side of me is hugely emotional right now. I may need to like step away from the microphone. I know it's hard.

Accountability: Indicating ARC And Source

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Why? So apparently, this is another one of those, like I know it goes back to, and clearly me repeating this is kind of in poor taste, considering our listeners are authors, but I will say it again. But that's why it can be such a valuable place for authors to hang out, spend time, put in the work, you know. But that being said, Goodreads does pay more attention to reader needs and activities on the site than it does authors, similar to Amazon, but that's a whole other, you know, conversation that we've technically had on and off. But anyway, so readers have been using, kind of working out a way to have their own DNF shelves for years. So for those of you listening that aren't super familiar with Goodreads, a huge function of Goodreads is so readers can create shelves and they can name them however they want. And so you can make book collections. So whether you've read them, not read them, want to read them based on different interests. So it's really a place that's what a lot of people use Goodreads for is to organize their virtual bookshelf. So when they go back, and that's why, again, small plug, why it's so important for authors, because a lot of people that use Goodreads will put books that they're interested in reading at a later date there. And if your book lands on one of those shelves, that's amazing. But the did not finish shelf is something that readers have been doing for a long time. So apparently, I mean, I wish I had more free time to just simply be a super reader, but apparently a lot of super readers don't finish plenty of books. And apparently that's normal in the super reader community. I can't speak to that personally, but if that is the norm and Goodreads was seeing that users were creating DNF shelves on their own, it basically finally decided like, let's make this an official function. So readers have a spot to put books that they did not finish. And, you know, the kind of what we want authors to think about when they do this. And I know Penny, you're gonna want to speak to this, is that ideally the silver lining here is that it gives, and I think this is why Goodreads did it too. Like, and this is why it's kind of linked to our first problem. It gives readers an alternative to leaving a low star rating or a negative review when the issue may be more complex than the book being bad. It could have just not been a personal fit, but they didn't, there's nothing wrong with it. It just wasn't what they thought it was going to be. Or maybe they, it was a busy time in their life and stuff came up and they didn't finish it and they weren't intrigued enough to go back. You know, it there's a lot of reasons why somebody might not finish a book. And I think the overall purpose of this is to give a place for those books versus somebody feeling compelled to leave a review that is negative, but maybe not for the proper reasons or in a way that is actually helpful to other readers or even good feedback for the author.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I mean, I guess. I just think that that I you know, I mean, just as an as an author, I I mean, and I saw and I saw it in one of your notes, like this that distinction actually protects authors more than it harms them. I am a fan of let me not if I can't say anything nice, let me not say anything at all. So I and again, because I have a obviously we work with authors, I'm very protective of authors. Um, and I would never think of posting a negative review just because I didn't finish a book. Like maybe at some point the book went off the rails. I'd like to think that all of my books are like perfect, but I'm sure it's there's readers have picked up, picked up one and thought, well, I wish Penny would have done more on X topic or on Z. And that's great. And maybe they'll write me and tell me, and then the next time that I release the book that I can, you know, if it if it merits a change, I can make that change. I I don't know. The do not finish I the did not finish shelf. I'm like, uh, I think I might have a hard time with that. I get why um, I get why Goodreads felt like they needed to do it, but it just feels I know feels very emotionally charged to me.

Making Unreleased Status Clear To Readers

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Well, and I think this is another what what makes the Goodreads platform more complex. And there's always pros and cons to everything, right? So I think what the Goodreads platform, which when it works in your favor, is great when you're an author, what it does well is encourage users, readers to engage with the books that they have marked in some way, shape, or form or have engaged with. So it the platform does encourage reviews, it reminds you you you shelved this book, you followed this author. So it really does promote a lot of engagement. And so I think so, very different from Amazon. And so that's why I said pros and cons. Like in so many ways, I wish Amazon was better about encouraging readers to post reviews versus letting it just fall off, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah. Like, yes, pros and cons. That might result in a couple of reviews that you don't like, but it could realistically will result in a lot more reviews that help you, you know? And that is one thing that Goodreads does right from just a straight functionality sense. You know what I mean? They really do encourage users to engage with books and authors and leave reviews and leave ratings and shelve and recommend and join giveaways. So there really is a lot of activity on that site, which is very different from the Amazon ecosystem in terms of the connections that readers and authors have directly to each other, you know? So I think that's one of the reasons, also. Again, not justifying that this isn't sound terrible to authors. I'm not negating those feelings by any means, but I do think that's another component to why Goodreads made this step to make it official, because users on Goodreads feel more compelled to engage with the book once they've, you know, I'm doing error quotes here, touched it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's not that kind of set it and forget it uh mentality like there is on Amazon. It's you're just so disconnected from the book and the author and all that stuff because Amazon is so retail, transactional, all that other stuff, whereas Goodreads functions more as social media. So it really does kind of keep you in that spin cycle of engagement.

The DNF Shelf Arrives: Reader First Logic

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Well, and the other thing that the that the good housekeeping article talked about is that, you know, you you may want to return, so you put it on your uh DNF shelf and you may want to return to it later, or maybe it wasn't the right time for the book, or something like that. And I've actually had books where I will that I loved like even years ago, right? And they're still sitting in my Kindle or whatever, and I will like, oh my god, you know what? I want to read that book again. And then I read it in a different place to maybe five or 10 years later, whatever. And I'm like, I don't know what I saw in that book. So I think the reverse is also true, right? You can also pick up a book and you can start reading, and it's like, oh, this I'm just not really my vibe right now, right? Or whatever, and you never finish it. And I got books like that, certainly. Um but you know, if Goodrays is going to implement this do not finish up, could you also do it for the Kindle? Because the Kindle app I'm sorry if the Kindle app needs a lot of work. Yeah, so much work. Um so now that we fixed all things Amazon, yeah, I can make and I do see a lot of I I you know, I've checked online before we did this, before we recorded this. I do see a lot of, you know, there's a lot of strong feelings about this. But it, you know, it is kind of it's an emotional world. Goodreads is an emotional roller coaster, let's face it. I mean, we love Goodreads because it is a direct, I mean, it's such a great direct line to readers. Um, but some of this stuff does get to be an emotional roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yes. And I think, you know, we talk about these kind of things all the time, but I think it's worth Penny. Do you want to go through the list? Like when you're dealing with whether it's Goodreads, whether it's Amazon reviews, there's so much that you can't control. For sure. Yeah. You know, when it comes to being an author. And, you know, yes, negative reviews, bad ratings, they suck, you know, excuse my language. But at the same time, you put something out there that you wanted people to consume. And then, you know, it's only natural for people to have reactions. You can't control those reactions, right? But there are things that you can control that I would say dramatically diminished the chances of getting negative reviews and negative reactions to your book, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Well, and you know what's interesting is I literally just got off the phone with an author, and she said, you know, I spent$10,000 creating my book. And which is a substantial, I mean, let's a substantial amount of money. And she said, because honestly, creating the book in a way that I thought was so it could be, you know, compatible with other books on the shelf, et cetera, et cetera, all the things that we talk about was the only thing that I could control. She goes, I cannot control how readers are going to react to it. I cannot control the kind of media I'm gonna get. All of that, you know, I want to spend money on things that I can control. And I thought, you know what? I I wish I could was sitting across from her at a coffee shop. I would have high-fived her. Um, because it she's absolutely right. But again, the things that you can control is the positioning, obviously, the packaging. This author that I talked to, not everybody has to spend$10,000 on your book. That was a choice, obviously. Um, your metadata. So your metadata has to be, you know, make sure that your metadata is, and by metadata we mean keywords and categories on Amazon. Metadata is an interesting term that a lot of, you know, it means different things in different places. But on Amazon is specifically, it's your keyword strings and your categories. Your advanced reader team, right? Having an advanced reader team and your, you know, who you're going after, your audience targeting. In fact, we just did an episode, and now I'm not sure if it's it's gonna run, if it ran last week or if it's gonna run next week, depending on how we schedule these. But we actually talked about, you know, being specifically hyper-focused on your exact right audience. And it was in in regards to picking a, you know, hiring a book marketing firm that was gonna actually um, you know, find your exact right market. And then, you know, long-term brand building, which we talk about a lot too. By the way, just as an aside, this is so interesting. And I found this after we recorded this. So we taught we were talking about scammers and stuff like that. And I don't want to get sidetracked, but I just want to mention this for our listeners, if you haven't seen it, the New York Times article, it just came out, I want to say, like yesterday or something. The New York Times did a whole story on the scammers that we have been talking about for months on the show. So get if you get a chance, the article is called, um, the article is called Hungry for Hungry for Affirmation, vulnerable to scams. As a writer, I know the feeling. So if you can't find it, yeah, if you can't find it, you can email us. I'll send you, I'll send you the article. I mean, it's really interesting. But um audience targeting long-term brand building. We have a ton of shows. We have actually have a ton of shows on all of these. So if you're a new listener, welcome, welcome. But go back, go back through those shows. So, so what do you think? So, what what's the closing, Amy? What's the takeaway for authors now that I'm rocking in a corner still over the DNF shelf?

SPEAKER_01 27:40

I know. I think, I mean, obviously, Goodreads is evolving. Maybe they are listening to Penny and they're finally getting their act together.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I don't think that's true, but thank you. That's very kind of you to say so.

Emotional Impact On Authors And Silver Linings

SPEAKER_01 27:52

But I think in line with it, and I do think it's interesting because I think Goodreads, their changes hit harder in a way because they're so definitive and instantly felt, but they really are attempting to improve integrity and transparency in a way that I just think the Amazon ecosystem is too big to realistically do as much as we would like it to. You know, I think Goodreads is such a smaller system that they are able to control some of this stuff and keep it in check, which I think is a positive thing. And again, for those of you out there that are doing all the right things, that are producing good books, that are, you know, the production is quality. Again, quality doesn't mean expensive. It just means quality, paying attention to the right things, everything that Penny mentioned. If you're doing all of those things, you are probably not going to be at risk for the negative stuff that you hear about Goodreads. And if something does happen and it feels suspicious, report it. You know, again, Goodreads is a much smaller ecosystem than the Amazon system. You know, reporting something to Amazon, good luck. You know, like we say we say do it anyway because it should be tracked and it should be documented. But, you know, there's a very little chance that something may get rectified. Whereas Goodreads, you have a direct line to real people. I have worked with Goodreads support. They are real people. So that is a benefit. So if something is weird with, you know, if you're getting weird reviews, if you feel like something is happening, legitimately unfairly report it because Goodreads can actually do something about it. Whereas you don't often see that as much on Amazon. Because, you know, no matter what happens with the changes, you know, writing strong books, reaching the right readers, focusing on what you can control, like that that's the big thing. So we're gonna keep, you know, updating y'all when we hear about shifts in, you know, Goodreads and other platforms that we typically recommend that authors utilize. And then of course, you know, someday Amazon may surprise us and and do something new for authors, which would be I would legit fall out of my chair if that happened, but I'm still waiting, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, I know it. I know. But this was a really Amy, thank you so much for putting together this episode. This was this was really informative. I loved it. I learned a lot, I got to vent a little bit. Uh all the things. I got, yeah, I got all the all the things for sure. Um, do we do we have time to take a question? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. All right. So I am just scrolling back to um, so we get listener questions all the time. Again, we love listener questions. Actually, you know what? Let me um pop up the so if you're not part of our little podcast group, text the word podcast to 888-402-8940, and you can ask us questions, which is awesome. And so um the first one, you know, I was a little bit, I was I was a little bit uh sort of confused about this. Let me just go back to it really quickly. Okay. So this author said, after listening to one of your podcasts recently, I thought I'd find out what KDP categories, a hard-to-place novel. Um, and then she cites her novel, he or she, I'm not sure who um the name, um, might have been hilariously ranked number one in men's adventure fiction. Hilarious because eight of the top ten in that category are fantasy or magic with far fewer reviews and lots of bucks and rebake, which I thought was so so hilarious. I love that. Um and so basically what this author is talking about is that they tried to rank their novel in, and I want to say that this person wanted to rank their book in um what was the genre? I'm trying to pick the genre out of this this note, fantasy or magic, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah. Fantasy are ranked as number one in men's adventure fiction, which they thought was a complete mismatch.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Which is a which is a complete mismatch. And a lot of times, so if your book is so if your book is showing up in some random category and you're just like, how did it get there? It's definitely the optimization. So the optimization is off, is wonky. But in this situation, this author is asking whether or not people were trying to trick the system by ranking their book in categories that aren't necessarily appropriate for their title. I mean, I think that was my takeaway. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yes. I mean, because this and be and I caught that because I have strong feelings about this based on like, you know, the Amazon optimization work. And when I'm doing that research and things like that, it's some of the things that I see and some of the things I wish I could unsee on Amazon. This is one of the ones that really pisses me off. Excuse my language, for the second time in this episode.

Goodreads vs Amazon: Engagement And Support

SPEAKER_00 32:39

No, but but it's yeah, now see Amy, now we're just gonna get around. I know. Now we have to change our rating. Now we're gonna change our rating. No, but this happens so I mean, it doesn't happen all the time. So thankfully we don't see this all the time. But this does happen where people are trying to trick the Amazon system. And let me just say this about that. We've done enough shows on Amazon, you probably already know what I'm gonna say. It's really hard to trick the Amazon system. At some point, Amazon's gonna figure you out. And then, you know, if you intentionally, so if you intentionally put your, I don't know, men's adventure book in fantasy or magic when that's not at all what it is, for example, um, at some point you're gonna get your hand slapped. But it does happen a lot. We see it a lot. We and and uh a lot of times I think people are doing it so they're going into really narrow categories to get that bestseller flag.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, you typically see it in more, in more niche categories, I think, than you see something that is wildly inappropriate in a really broad, highly competitive category. That's really hard to do. And but I will say, you know, honestly, Penny, where I see it the most, and this may be an unpopular opinion, but just in my, you know, in my own research, the biggest offenders are romance books because I think they because and I want to give the author the benefit of the doubt, authors, that romance books oftentimes can be very highly complex and include a lot of different themes and a lot of different elements. And you know what I mean? Like there could be a lot in there. And I think they're kind of reaching for straws when it comes to like, but this my book that does relate to my book. You know what I mean? There is some of that in here when in the reality that's not how categories are used. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, exactly. And I think that, again, I think that that sometimes books land in the wrong categories because their optimization is off, in which case you should follow us and let us do your optimization. But uh, in some cases, authors are putting their books into categories that are narrow, easy to get to number one, but are completely misaligned with their book, which is because they just want, you know, it's amazing what people will do just to get that bestseller flag. I'm just saying. I know it's wild. It's really wild. And and we've known system, I don't know if the service is still in business. It was actually here not far from me, where they would just buy up a whole like you have to buy up, I don't know how many copies, 10,000, 30,000, whatever of your book in order to hit a bestseller, get a bestseller flag. Like you could say that. So it seems a little bit, I don't know. There are other more ethical ways to get a bestseller flag.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

And you know, I just or just not hang your entire career on that. You can still write a great book and reach a lot of readers that love your work without the bestseller flag. Believe it or not, it's possible.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Right, exactly. It is, it definitely is possible. If you don't believe that it's possible, go back and listen to some of our shows. Listen, we want to thank you all so much for listening. We love your feedback. Again, thank you for this listener question. Um, we love questions. So text those to us. And um the texting information is obviously in the show notes. Amy, this was a great idea for a show. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Oh, yeah. I love when we've got new breaking stuff to talk about. And I love that this is our breaking news because you know, real breaking news makes me sad.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

So this I know I like this version of breaking news a lot. I know. I saw a meme the other day that said, I am one breaking news alert from walking into the ocean. I'm like, same. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

So let's keep our heads tucked into goodreads and and complaining about Amazon and you know, yeah, one.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Listener, listen, we love um, we we love your show feedback. We love your ideas. Keep communicating with us. We love your questions. We'll tend to try to answer as many of them as we can in shows where we haven't gone terribly long. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week. Bye bye.