Bookstore Events Have Changed: What Authors Need to Know

Are Barnes & Noble author events going away? Not exactly. But the days of walking into a bookstore, asking for a signing, and expecting the store to supply the audience are rapidly disappearing—and that may actually be good news for authors who know how to create a compelling event.

In this episode, we unpack what’s really happening with Barnes & Noble events and the much bigger shift taking place in bookstore marketing. Because bookstores still want authors. They still want events. What they increasingly don’t want is a table, a stack of books, and an author waiting for random shoppers to stop by.

The question authors need to answer has changed from “Will you host me?” to “Why will people come?”

And that distinction matters.

We talk about why bookstores need authors to approach events as business partnerships rather than free promotional opportunities, what makes an event worth putting on the calendar, and why the traditional solo signing is often one of the weakest formats you can pitch.

Then we get into what does work.

For fiction authors, that might mean creating a multi-author genre night, themed reader event, or conversation that gives fans more than one reason to attend. For nonfiction authors, it could be a workshop, panel, demonstration, or locally relevant discussion tied to an issue your community already cares about.

We also break down what belongs in a strong Barnes & Noble event pitch—including the piece far too many authors leave out: your plan for getting people there.

That means local media, community calendars, book clubs, organizations, newsletters, social promotion, partnerships, and the local relationships you’ve already started building.

And if Barnes & Noble isn’t saying yes yet? We explain why libraries, indie bookstores, book clubs, community organizations, and smaller venues can become the proof that makes the next bookstore much more willing to take a chance on you.

Because local book marketing compounds. One successful event can lead to another. Booksellers talk. Librarians talk. Communities remember authors who show up prepared, promote professionally, and bring something worthwhile to the room.

If bookstore events are part of your marketing plan, this episode will help you stop thinking like an author asking for space—and start thinking like an event partner a bookstore actually wants to work with.

If you find this episode useful, subscribe, share it with an author who’s trying to land more bookstore events, and leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Order Penny's latest book, Think Local Sell Global and start building a book sales strategy you have more control over!

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Transcript

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Welcome And A Quick AI Detour

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the book marketing tips and authorities podcast. This is PennySdance and a week or not. And we are really excited about the show on Arts Noble. There's a lot of stuff out there about Art Noble not doing off through events. There's a whole bunch of red things going on about Arts Noble not doing up for events. And we're gonna break that down and talk about exactly what's happening first. Maybe I don't know if I told you that last week was in the news that this author with the $2 million book advance, $2 million lost their book advance because the publisher detected that the book was written by AI.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

That's wild. And how much of that do you think was spent? That's a whole different like type of show, but I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Oh, I'm sure. And and you know, the the other piece of though, too, that I think is worth mentioning, and we may end up doing a whole show on this. They're the AI detection software is really bad. Like it's not. I actually have a neighbor and they she's a teacher, and they have an AI detection system that they use. And she said it's really awful because it's not accurate at all. So I don't know. If that had been me, first off, that too many dollars would have long been spent. I would be I would be texting them from my home in the south of France, be like, okay, I'll pay it right back. And didn't you have didn't you have a neighbor tell you that they wanted to now write a book using anything or something?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Well, I was walking the dog, and you know, it was one of those neighbors, like, oh, we've never talked about what you do and all this stuff. And you're like, I really want to write my memoir. And he's like, I think I'd use AI to make me sound really good. And I was just like, Can I don't want to keep talking about this, please? I know. I felt I felt much more neighborly before that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I know. It's like, yeah, we're not gonna help you with your with your little robot generated. And the thing about AI, and again, we won't go down too far down the rabbit hole. It's really unlike, I'm sorry. I know a lot of y'all really love Claude and ChatGPT, and we do too. Like, we, you know, I use it a lot for images and things like that, and sometimes brainstorming, but it's really unreliable. I gotta tell you, sometimes I had, I just had, I was doing so, just full disclosure, I use ChatGPT to do a lot of our social media images because I'm really bad at doing images, and everybody is just so sl Amy's much better at doing images, but she has enough on her plate. So it did an image for one of our podcasts and it threw a dog at sitting at a desk. I said, because I said, look, I want an author to look a little overwhelmed, all the things. And it sent me an image with a dog. I'm like, really? You know, so I know, yeah. So it can be a yeah, it can be a little bit unreal. It can be a little bit sometimes a lot unreliable. Anyway, two million

Barnes And Noble Event Rumors

SPEAKER_00 2:55

dollars, I would be, that would be very, very painful. Now, there is this whole conversation going on about Barnes and Noble is no longer doing author events, like they're just not doing author events and blah, blah, blah. Okay, don't believe any of that. That's actually not true. So Barnes and Noble is actually expanding their stores nationwide. Barnes Noble has done really, really well. There's a whole great story uh on that actually in a podcast that I listened to on why Barnes and Noble has just kind of, you know, where a few years ago it would have been like, well, Barnes and Noble, we don't know if they're still going to be around. And now they're expanding and they're adding stores and everything. And now all of a sudden, authors are like, well, now they're not doing events anymore. Here's the thing. And and I guess maybe this is like the entire show in a nutshell. Hopefully, we'll still have something to talk about, but bookstores don't, and and actually any retail venue doesn't owe authors' event space. Full stop. So essentially, I mean, what they're doing is they're they're holding authors to higher standards in order to get events, basically. And we're gonna talk through some of that. I mean, was that your takeaway as well? Or am I just being like mean?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

No, that was exactly what I took away from it. And I think I mentioned this in the green room when we were chatting about I said, you know, I I I'm glad that we're talking about this because it really reflects what you really need to be focused on as an author if you want to work in brick and mortar retail across the board. You know, like Barnes and Noble. I mean, when I read it now, I'm like, wow, thinking back, Barnes and Noble is being very generous previously, right? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like the what they're moving toward, honestly, as a business person, I'm like, hell yeah, I don't blame you. But that's not as productive as actually going through the rhyme and reason and what authors can do about it. So hence the show, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Well, hence the show. And I think what Farns and Noble is doing, I think they're very intentionally, is they're they're putting up, they're putting up some some some walls, right? Where they're saying, well, you know, we're gonna be a lot more selective. And of course, on Reddit, when you use the word selective, they they a lot of people took that as they're not doing events at all, right? But essentially what Farnes and Noble is saying is we really need evidence that this event is gonna bring people through the door. And that has, you know, and I gotta tell you, guys, that has always been a thing, regardless of whether you're going to a Barnes and Noble or you're going to a local, I don't know, garden center with your plant-related book. I mean, authors are, you know, you really have to bring your A game. I know we say that a lot in this, and if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, we say that a lot. But I think that instead of asking, you know, why won't Barnes Noble give me an event? It it that a better question would be to say, why would a bookstore want to host my event? And that's a tough question to ask. I mean, I think that's a tough question to ask authors to ask themselves, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I mean, this isn't just an opportunity that somebody hands you. And like Penny said, I'm glad that you mentioned it doesn't matter if it's Barnes and Noble, which is a huge national chain, or if it's your local bookstore. You know what I mean? This is a business partnership. There needs to be something in it for them as well. They are running a business, big or small. And so you need to show a value add. And it's really, if that sounds super harsh, you know, don't take it that way. It's just the reality of it. And you have value add. And that's another reason we wanted to do the show because it's in there. It's just kind of sorting through how do I approach this? What's my value add? If you do it in steps, you all have a lot to bring to the table. You just need to flesh it out correctly and present it in the right way.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah, exactly.

Why Stores Say No

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Exactly. So, do you want to start off with where authors go wrong with this? Do we want to? I know we kind of we've already sort of dipped into that pond, so that maybe there's not a ton to left to cover there. I think there is though.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

No, yeah, for sure. I think one of the biggest misunderstandings is that authors often assume that the bookstore is supplying the audience and they are supplying, you know, your existence, which is not really how that works. Like you assume because you're at a retail store, it's like they've got a built-in, they've got built-in foot traffic, they've got built-in shoppers, you know, set me up and I'll sell my book. But that's not really from their perspective, that's not an event. That's an author trying to sell books to that. You know what I mean? That's the author trying to make some money in their space. And that's not attractive to them on its own, right? Right. A really an author event, if you are if you are asking for space or time in somebody else's store, you need to create a reason for additional traffic to come in there. That's the value add. If they already have their built-in traffic, they did that on their own. They don't need you. You need to bring in the extra traffic. You need to bring something interesting, different, something that they can sell to their current audience as a reason to come back in the store. Maybe they were already there once that week. You know what I mean? Like challenge yourself to say, why would somebody come back to the store this week if they already visited? What can I do that would make that an appealing offer? I mean, that's really the kind of the bar you want to set for yourself in terms of how you're going to set this up and how you're going to pitch yourself as a solid option for whoever you're trying to collaborate with.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that, you know, I talk about this in in Think Local, Sell Global about doing author events is you really have to, you have to bring, I mean, uh, I would really recommend if you're a newbie author and you don't have a mailing list and you haven't really done anything, you really want to build up some kind of a base or some something that you can bring to these stores because they are going to want to know, you know, who's gonna, who's gonna, how are you, how are you gonna drive traffic into the store? How are you going to drive people into the store? I mean, yes, there are there is foot traffic in these stores, 10,000%, but you can't rely on foot traffic alone, you know, on their existing foot traffic alone is what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, 100%. Because they're already there for another purpose. It's kind of like how we always talk about how social media is very distracting. Social media can be very challenging for authors when it comes to buying advertising on social media because people are there for a million and one other reasons, not looking for your book or even a book to buy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so you have to kind of remember that too. Yes, it's a bookstore. Yes, they're there for books, but they're usually there for a reason. You know, they have a book in mind, or they're going there to find a specific book, or something like that, you know, and so you are not the focus just because they're already in the door. So, how do you create that additional attention in a way that's mutually beneficial?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Right, exactly. And I think that I did an I wrote an article a bunch of years ago, and it was called Book Signings Are Boring. And love that. The core premise of the article was that uh sitting at a table with a with a you know, with a full pen and a stack of books is a really boring way to spend that afternoon, even and especially for the author. You when you are pitching yourself to bookstores, you really want to make sure that you're pitching them something other than a book signing. So a conversation with an author, you're gonna have a conversation, maybe you're gonna talk about the topic of your book, right? Some sort of local community tie-in or seasonal tie-in, or something that, you know, and multiple authors, which we'll talk about in a second, something that is that is a package deal for the bookstore to host your event, right? And here's the other thing, though, too, is if you're if you're interested in doing local events, which I uh I'm a huge, obviously I wrote the book on it, I'm a huge fan of, think about it this way, right? So bookstores and libraries communicate with one another. They are, you know, in fact, I was on a panel at ASJA and several of the bookstore managers and librarians talked about how they communicate back and forth. Well, like if, you know, if a bookstore is trying to decide whether to have you as an event or to stock your book, sometimes they'll go to the libraries and say, have you had any dealings with this author? So a relationship with the bookstore is not just a relationship with the bookstore, it's a relationship with your with your area too. So that's also something to consider too, is that these relationships, they talk to one another, they matter. And the other piece of it is that if you have if you're lucky enough to live in a town with a lot of bookstores in your area, or two or three, which is these days is a lot, sadly. Yeah, typically they won't feature you, like you can't be in all three bookstores in a month or something, right? Because every single event that you do, you're siphoning off the traffic from the price. So if you have 50 people at your first event, you may only have 30 people at your second if you're lucky. And then you may only have five people at your third. And bookstores really know this. So when you are going after bookstores, be thoughtful about who you're pitching first, right? You know, yeah, really smart. And I think again, think

Turn A Signing Into An Event

SPEAKER_00 12:15

like an event partner because that's what the bookstore is looking for. Why is this event? Why is this an event and why will people come? And we just actually did a show, and I'm not sure if it's airing next week or if it aired last week, because we don't always we record these shows and we don't always have the calendar in front of us. But we just talked about a show. We we just recorded a show about authors who had staggering numbers and did had really failed book launches, right? So when you're going to a bookstore, don't think that you have to have 50,000 Instagram followers. Your local audience, your local reach, your newsletter that has a lot of local people, you know, previous events that you've done, relationships with the community groups or community organizations, things like that can all be appealing, as can media coverage that you're gonna go after, any prior speaking experience, reader groups, professional associations. I mean, they bookstores really want to know that if they're gonna give you a table and an afternoon, that you're gonna be able to actually do something with this tremendous gift that they've given you, right? Of getting this bookstore exposure.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

What's next? What's next? Go ahead. Sorry. This is fun. And I mean, wow, now I feel like we could turn this into a huge plug for your book, Penny. But truly, I know. Let's just talk about my yes. I know, but truly give the bookstore an actual event concept. And this goes back to what you said about how boring it is to spend an afternoon sitting at a table with a pen in a stack of books and making awkward eye contact with people walking by, right? Yes. Like that's not exciting. That's actually it's probably less likely to invite somebody over because they're like, oh, what is happening over there if I engage that I'm stuck in this conversation? So skip all of that, skip all of that awkward nonsense and come up with an idea that's a lot more interesting. And then again, gives the store a reason to get more people in the door than they normally would. So a few examples for fiction. Oh, see, this is the fun part, honestly. Like I feel like Penny, we could talk about this kind of stuff for days, just coming up with ideas, but a multi-author mystery night. So partner with other authors in your area that write in a similar genre because that is a much bigger draw, you know. And plus, then you all can work off of each other, you don't kind of play off of each other. It makes conversation much easier, super fun. Romance, talk about writing small town romance. A lot of people have aspirations to be an author at some point. You know, make it fun, make it specific. Don't just say, well, tell people how to write a book. It's like, oh, that sounds like homework. You know what I mean? The more specific and the more thoughtful you can be about what exactly you're going to talk about or what exactly you're going to teach the better. Summer Beach Reads event. I mean, that's a fun. We're a little past that now this time of year, but what a cool idea for just ahead of the summer season to pull together, you know, ideas for summer travel, time at the beach. It's so, and and oh, this one too. Local thriller authors. I mean, now we're entering spooky season finally. We are finally in my era of the year. So, all of you thriller authors out there, there's so much that you could potentially do this time of year that fits the vibe of the season. And I think that's another big one too, because a lot of stores, they've got social media, they have newsletters, they have themes that they set up in the store. Try to think about that too. What's already going to be working with their marketing, right? How can you add to what's happening seasonally that's already going to fit in what they're trying to do with their own marketing? And then you're a much more natural fit for what they're already promoting, what they're already trying to get their customers excited about, things like that. Penny, do you want to take nonfiction? That's definitely more your area.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, I don't I love that. And I have to just come back to, I just want to come back to multi-author events are so fun. And part of the reason why I love them is not just because you're getting all of these authors, you know, in in one night. But think about it too. You're all pulling from each other's mailing lists, potentially, right? You're all pulling from each other's social media followings. And hopefully, if you're all working together, you're all pushing for media, you know, to get media in your town to cover you. So it's also, you know, it's also a very unique concept. So I think that that any time that you can go after it with, like Amy said, like for spooky season, which we love, anytime that you can go after something that fits the vibe of the season or the store and brings a lot of benefits to them is really great. And for nonfiction, I mean, this is for those of you writing nonfiction, this is a little bit of an it an easier one, I think, because you can always talk about the problem that your book solves, right? Or what, you know, if you have a local history book, talk about, I mean, the bookstores especially really love that, right? Or you might want to do a panel around the issue that you've written about that is relevant to your community, that then turns this book into a product. And that is the reason that people show up. So there's a lot that you can do, you know, for nonfiction in particular, like anything that's timely or any even some small piece of your book that you want to talk about, you know, you don't have to go through it from cover to cover, but something that is going to be relevant, timely, relevant to your audience, and obviously relevant to the store. Right. And Barnes and Noble, I mean, I think that, you know, the promotional plan. So if I'm pitching an author, if we're pitching an author to a bookstore, we are already leading with here's what is going to happen if you book this author in your store. So there's not a lot of back and forth. Because frankly, the people at Barnes and Noble, they don't have the time for that. They're not like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do for us? Like, they're not going to email you and ask you that question generally. You really want to lead with that. So your, so anything that you pitch them should include, you know, an email list if you have one and the size, what you plan to do on social media, your local media, getting your event into community calendars. I mean, essentially, this is some of the stuff. So years ago, when I was first in business, Barnes and Noble used to do all of this stuff. Like they would pitch you to, you know, they would pitch you to calendars and local media and all of those kinds of things. And they just don't have time for that anymore. So that's something that I would be very, very specific on those details as opposed to just saying, yes, I'll promote this event. You want to get really specific because I can tell you right now, the majority of Barnes and Noble's community relations managers, event managers, managers, whatever that they are called in your particular area, have heard the I'll promote it. And then nothing ever happens many, many, many

Local Proof And A Real Plan

SPEAKER_00 19:00

times. Absolutely. So do you want to talk a little bit about the local proof, which I really love? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

So this is especially important if you're a newer author, if you don't have a backlist, if this is, you know, your first rodeo, you might get asked what kind of turnout do you typically get? And you don't want to have to say, I've never done anything before. And this is specifically for the bigger retail locations. So especially a Barnes and Noble. You know what I mean? Some of your smaller retail locations, they may not ask. This may not be as big of a deal. But before you just skip all the little guys, thinking, like, well, I'd rather, you know, potentially get a thousand people walking by versus 10 or 15, we get it. But that's not typically how you need to start off. You know, so start somewhere that makes sense for where you're at in your, I mean, I hate to sound cliche in your author journey, but truly, like start somewhere that makes sense for what you can actually bring to the table right now. And if if you're just starting out, that is much more likely to be libraries, community organizations, local book clubs, you know, again, smaller independent retail stores, community centers are a great spot. I mean, depending on what you've written, also, there are going to be certain retailers and businesses that may make a lot of sense just based on your topic alone. I know we've used examples like if you've written anything fitness or health related, doing something with a locally owned gym or something like that is a natural fit. So really thinking outside the box and not just thinking about like where do people buy books, but also where can where are my people hanging out? Where can I add value? You know what I mean? So start with those places. And again, there is no shame in building up easy wins. It will actually help you significantly as you grow your author platform and grow your brand and want to go after bigger opportunities. If you haven't secured those easy wins, then you've done something wrong. You've left opportunities on the table, some things have fallen through the cracks. Get those easy wins, mark them off, get that experience, and then build on that. And that is really how successful authors end up where they are. You know, it's not because they jumped the line or had some sort of secret that no, we're not sharing with you. It's because they put in the work, they secured the easy wins, they use that to build more momentum and use that as part of their essentially their author resume.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Right, right, right. Exactly. Yeah, everything builds on everything else. So every event, every thing that you do builds on everything that you do. And this is part of the reason why you want to have a media room on your website, you want to make sure to list upcoming events, past events, keep those lists up to date, please, because you want to make sure that you are, you know, that you're not listing an event on there that you did in 2022. I've seen that just like I've seen like I'm doing an I did an author event April 9th, 2022. It's like, I need your list updated. So and every kind of media appearance, everything that you've Done, take pictures also with these events, right? Photographic, photographic evidence. So I think that, and then, you know, just in terms of retail readiness, right? Making sure that you have, as we talked about, some kind of a marketing plan that you put together for Barnes and Noble for this event specifically that you can share with them. I think that is they will be very appreciative for that, especially if they don't, if you, you know, they don't make you, they don't, you don't force them to ask you about, well, okay, well, what are you going to do for this event? Because as I said, they probably won't do that. And then I think that going seasonally, now, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, that's a great idea. I want to go after something for spooky season or for the holidays, I can almost guarantee you that the Barnes and Nobles are probably going to be pretty booked up, but you may want to just give it a shot. Just know that any of these big seasonal times, they do tend to book up fairly quickly. And in some cases, Barnes and Noble, because they know they're going to get a lot of retail traffic in the stores, they may or may not do events like in December or something, right? But it's definitely worth, it's definitely worth asking about that. So I think, you know, approaching them with a kind of like a resume package is a really good idea. Your marketing plan, what you're going to do, the idea for the event. If you do come to them with the multi-author idea, have the authors ready, you know, so that, you know, do an outreach and say, you know, would you be interested in this event so that you can list them on your materials. So if you're going to do some kind of an event, have that event fleshed out a little bit, just in terms of here's who I'm going to invite for the multi-author, or here's the kind of, you know, event talk that I want to do, or whatever that is, right? Don't just say, yeah, I'd like to talk about blah, blah. Make sure that you have all those topics ready to go. And then what? So what am I missing here? What have I, what did we not cover in this show?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I think we've covered a lot of it. I mean, I think the local visibility part, I think that's, you know, I think I mean, again, no, I'm gonna just say it. Get Penny's book, please. Because she's my best person, I swear. Oh, you know, we could yammer in your ear for a long time about all this, but they really do, and this is really applicable to a lot of the marketing that we talk about and a lot of the platform building and branding. Each piece is just a piece of the puzzle, right? None of these are going to be your make it or break it moment, right? So a lot of the right things have to come together, especially with local. Like I think local needs to be looked at as kind of this organic, holistic opportunity where you have a lot of different touch points to take advantage of, and they all will support each other. So I think that's a huge one, too, is that yes, I love that Barnes ⁇ Noble made news recently about how these are changing because it was a good conversation to have. But it also, you know, uh let us talk about this kind of broader uh approach to what local requires, how you get prepared for it, how each individual piece supports the other one.

Libraries Networking And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So networking you do with retail stores, even if it's not for an event, go in, introduce yourself, bring a copy of your book. Maybe they'll keep a couple, you know, on the shelf for a little bit. Maybe it's just a matter of the owner or manager recommending it to a friend, you know, because they have a friend that your book would be perfect for. I mean, that is something so valuable that that you can't do online, right, Penny? Yeah. Like there's so much in local that you just can't achieve at your desk that is waiting for you. And a lot of it again feeds off the other pieces. So I think the broader conversation around just, you know, Barnes and Nobles changes and booking bookstore events, I think I hopefully it opened your eyes to how much more control you have over your local marketing and how much you can achieve by actually just kind of getting out there and getting involved in things and focusing on, you know, how to how to brag about yourself a little bit, right? Yeah. Like maybe all those things you've been doing in your community for years, like you haven't thought twice about them until now you need to frame them as part of your author resume. And then all of a sudden you go, Oh, I'm actually more involved than I thought I was. And I I I have some value to add here. And I think that's fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah. I agree with that. I think it's fabulous. And it is one of the most overlooked, in our opinion, one of the most overlooked marketing strategies is going after your local community. So I think that the takeaway is don't panic about Barnes and Noble. They are still doing author events. They are just really asking you to do your due diligence and your homework and to make the event to bring them a really viable event that is going to be um, that is gonna, you know, that is gonna benefit everybody. And I also think another takeaway from this should be, you know, what are you doing with your? I know this isn't a library conversation, and we sometimes I sometimes on these podcasts I get these random thoughts and ideas. I'm like, oh, let's just talk about this. And I'm sure Amy's like sitting on the other side of this, like just going, oh my gosh, here she goes.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Our little string sort of ideas, they're all connected.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Right. We have these, like the guy with yeah, the string meme. The guy with the string meme, that's sometimes us trying to brainstorm some of these podcast ideas. But libraries are really important. Libraries do communicate with bookstores. So when was the last time that you walked into your local library to talk to talk to them about carrying your book, walked your book into the into the local library, make friends, network locally, it will really benefit you in in tremendous ways. So we hope this has inspired you to get your own Barnes Noble event.

Text Us And Leave Reviews

SPEAKER_00 27:44

We want to hear from you, um, whether it's to tell us about your event, what you've loved about the show, what you want to hear more of, show ideas, all the things you can text the word podcast to 888-402-8940. And don't forget to leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. We check all the time. We check our reviews like stock market duckies. We just have to admit that right now. Absolutely. I know a whole show-but validation.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

It's like, so here we are.

unknown 28:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

And so here we are. We're doing a whole show-but validation. So have us those reviews, people like link and leave us a review. We love reviews wherever you listen to podcasts. And we will see you next time. Bye-bye.